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Big Fat Lies :(

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  • 15 Jul 2012 2:09 AM
    Message # 1009757
    Deleted user
    Okay so I have basically just finished reading 'Big Fat Lies'

    so the minimal things we were allowed in the cubbard that I ate and my son loved are now off limits as well - can you seriously eat ANYTHING. Im feeling rather pissed off and frustrated.

    I read the first two books and it said we could eat salads, plain sakata, sao, plain popcorn and all these other things my son like to eat and now they are saying you can't in the latest book so can someone please tell me of any subsititues and what the hell we can eat?
  • 15 Jul 2012 4:19 AM
    Reply # 1009813 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    my son is so fussy as it is - he only eats one type of bread - Wonder Wholemeal and it says vegetable oil in the ingredients, he eats saladas dry for lunch and all the things he likes has vegetable oil and I have no idea what to do.  He loves fruit, some veges, barely any meat whatsoever so what am I going to feed him now?  He starts school back on Tuesday and its going to be a nightmare - HELP please
  • 15 Jul 2012 7:11 AM
    Reply # 1009886 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    Rebecca Lane wrote:Okay so I have basically just finished reading 'Big Fat Lies'

    so the minimal things we were allowed in the cubbard that I ate and my son loved are now off limits as well - can you seriously eat ANYTHING. Im feeling rather pissed off and frustrated.

    I read the first two books and it said we could eat salads, plain sakata, sao, plain popcorn and all these other things my son like to eat and now they are saying you can't in the latest book so can someone please tell me of any subsititues and what the hell we can eat?

    Well, I'm not sure which book you read.  There is nothing wrong with salads, or plain popcorn.  So long as you don't use vegetable oils in the dressings, or to pop it in.  And, why would you ? If you make your own dressing or buy a good quality one, then that's nicer anyhow.  I use avocado oil with lemon in it as a dressing for salad, it's delicious.  

    There's two things going on here:

    1 - fructose in sugar is addictive and messes up your appetite control.  Therefore you should stop eating it, so that you eat sensible portions ( and thus lose weight ) as well as not having fat in your blood stream.  This could be called the 'core' message.

    2 - vegetable oils are a highly processed food, they are not natural and there's a reason to suspect they are implied in cancer.  They are NOT addictive, nor do they mess up your appetite control.  Thus, you can decide to keep eating them without having any impact on the 'sugar' message.  As they are not addictive, you can eat foods that contain vegetable oils without getting addicted, or messing up your appetite control, etc.  They are two different messages.  I personally have avoided those franken oils for a long time anyhow, I buy big tubs of olive oil and avoid fried foods, so that part was really easy for me, but it's still nothing to do with the message re: sugar.

  • 15 Jul 2012 7:20 AM
    Reply # 1009891 on 1009813
    Deleted user
    Rebecca Lane wrote:my son is so fussy as it is - he only eats one type of bread - Wonder Wholemeal and it says vegetable oil in the ingredients, he eats saladas dry for lunch and all the things he likes has vegetable oil and I have no idea what to do.  He loves fruit, some veges, barely any meat whatsoever so what am I going to feed him now?  He starts school back on Tuesday and its going to be a nightmare - HELP please

    How old is your son ? He sounds like a really fussy eater ( that's not a judgement, my 12 is, too ).  Said 12 yo is now used to eating seed bread, which was quite a struggle, but I stuck with it, mostly because being too fussy can't help him in the long term, as well as being a pain for us.  All the breads I've found have vegetable oil, but it's low on the list on Helgas, etc, and I just don't see a way around it, until i have the time to start making my own bread again.  Highly seeded bread tends to need less oil in it, because of the seeds.  The seeds themselves are, of course, fine to eat, it's the oil that is bad.

    Remember, there's two messages.  People followed 'Sweet Poison' and lost weight before Big Fat Lies was written, sugar is the main issue here, and is not that hard to avoid.  Vege oil is harder ( he's writing a book on how to avoid it at the moment ).  I am convinced about what the book says, but I am not vege oil free, although I am close, my bread is probably the main thing where I'm yet to work out an alternative.  The point is, I still lost weight, and have kept it off.  

    Most of the dressings for salad that have vegetable oil, also have sugar.  Did you know food companies could not believe their luck when they realised people would pay a premium for pre-made salad dressing ? It's super easy to make.  And olive oil tastes a LOT better.  No way does he prefer the taste, he just prefers the processed foods that contains vegetable oil b/c it's cheap, and probably contain sugar.  I would suggest trying some simple dressings that you can make, or just buying a flavoured olive or avocado oil and see how it goes.  Honestly, a lot of this stuff tastes fine, and it's just a case of limiting his options and letting him choose from those.  Or making some allowance and letting him not be sugar free, or vegetable oil free.  But, it's not a religion, you don't go to hell if your kid has a small amount of vegetable oil once a day ( sugar is worse, you miss the point if he eats sugar every day, but the vegetable oil is both harder to avoid, and not as bad, in the short term, it's not addictive and does not mess up appetite control ).

    I would suggest that you need to not indulge him to the point of 'he only eats one type of bread'.  Kids don't have to be THAT fussy, mine tried and when he realised I wasn't having it, he gave in.  I certainly take his preferences in to account, but one brand of bread only really makes no sense at all.

  • 15 Jul 2012 7:27 PM
    Reply # 1010204 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    It's also worth asking, are you mad at the food industry for selling us poison, or David for pointing it out ? :P

    The human body replaces all it's cells every 5 years.  In that sense, if your son eats vegetable oils, the damage is temporary.  If he doesn't get cancer in the next 5 years, then the harm that David says can come from vegetable oils, will not have come to him from the bread he ate today.  I think it's also worth pointing out that it's possible to read these books and decide what you want to do about them.  There's almost no discussion of the 'vegetable oils' aspect of the books here, I suspect most people have not read Big Fat Lies and/or are not pursuing it with the same vigour as the sugar thing.  I am certainly not as good about it, although I really want to get better, but it's work.  I need to basically stop buying anything that is prepackaged and has oil in it.  The food industry uses these oils for two reasons

    1 - it's cheap
    2 - the farcical 'heart smart' tick comes with it.

    So, if you can't do it all, that doesn't mean you have to do none of it.  The weight loss benefit ( which seems to be what most people focus on ) is 100% from not eating sugar.
  • 15 Jul 2012 8:03 PM
    Reply # 1010217 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    I'm actually still yet to get a copy of big fat lies, but the way I interpret it all is basically you want to avoid processed foods.  I do agree with what Christian is saying it's really up to you.  I don't think what your currently giving your son is going to harm him that much as long as it's sugar free.  I give my daughter sandwiches I buy the light rye bread from Aldi, why not try a different brand of bread  but don't say anything.  How old is your son? My daughter is 5.5, she was quite fussy when she was younger, but it's more about persistence, keep offering different foods, kids won't starve themselves and another trick I've learnt is not to overfill the plate, it's quite daunting to see a huge plate of food and it puts them off.
  • 15 Jul 2012 8:09 PM
    Reply # 1010222 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    "yes dad - no dad" :P hahahhaha

    Good points and I'm pissed off at the food industry for putting it in the foods!!!! lol

    Ok don't know where to start - my son is 10 and incredibly fussy.  He loves the wonder wholemeal probably because its smooth like white.  He hasn't eaten white bread for quite some time and because I couldn't get the bread he wanted I got the white version of it and he wouldn't eat it lol.  Not that I wanted him to but didn't know what else to give him - he hates the grains and lumps (has a sensory thing going on too)

    Chapter 12 - Cutting Out Polyunsaturated Fats (Specifically Seed Oils)
    nearly everything is off the list basically because they contain polyunsaturated fats or vege oil. So nearly all chips are off unless you can find some made with olive oil (crisps in a packet)
    nearly all crackers, most breads, seeds which isn't really a problem
    if the label says 'vegetable oil' assume the worst - that it's palm, soy or sunflower oil - and AVOID IT!

    and it was in all those things I pointed out which really freaked me out.  I would much rather have sugar and worry about getting fat than the cancers he says are in the bad fats in contribution with sugar.  Cancer is much more scary and worry some than the sugar which I can absolutely do without anyway.


  • 15 Jul 2012 8:11 PM
    Reply # 1010224 on 1009757
    Deleted user
    I can't sneak anything past my 10 y.old  he is also incredibly bright and in the gifted class to make matters much more complicated for me and himself lol.
  • 15 Jul 2012 10:38 PM
    Reply # 1010418 on 1010222
    Deleted user
    Rebecca Lane wrote:"yes dad - no dad" :P hahahhaha

    Good points and I'm pissed off at the food industry for putting it in the foods!!!! lol

    Ok don't know where to start - my son is 10 and incredibly fussy.  He loves the wonder wholemeal probably because its smooth like white.  He hasn't eaten white bread for quite some time and because I couldn't get the bread he wanted I got the white version of it and he wouldn't eat it lol.  Not that I wanted him to but didn't know what else to give him - he hates the grains and lumps (has a sensory thing going on too)

    Chapter 12 - Cutting Out Polyunsaturated Fats (Specifically Seed Oils)
    nearly everything is off the list basically because they contain polyunsaturated fats or vege oil. So nearly all chips are off unless you can find some made with olive oil (crisps in a packet)
    nearly all crackers, most breads, seeds which isn't really a problem
    if the label says 'vegetable oil' assume the worst - that it's palm, soy or sunflower oil - and AVOID IT!

    and it was in all those things I pointed out which really freaked me out.  I would much rather have sugar and worry about getting fat than the cancers he says are in the bad fats in contribution with sugar.  Cancer is much more scary and worry some than the sugar which I can absolutely do without anyway.



    Wow - he sounds a lot like Calvin.  He has all sorts of sensory issues, too.  He was also diagnosed ADHD although we worked out it was food allergies, chocolate being the worst.  So I've done the whole 'raise a kid who can't have the same treats as the others' thing already.  It was hard work at times, but he was pretty good about telling people, before too long.

    It took a long time to get him to the point of eating seed bread, and to be honest, I think the main thing is that he's getting over the fussiness in general ( although not spontaneously, because we've worked hard at it ).

    Well, don't forget, sugar also feeds cancer, and causes all sorts of other diseases ( diabetes, hearth disease, etc ).  I think a lot of people here focus too much on the weight loss aspect, it's not a diet in the sense of 'pick your weight and work to it', it's a sensible and healthy way of eating.  So, you cut off the food for the cancer if you don't eat sugar, although the vegetable oils seem likely to cause it in the first place.  Your kid is not going to get cancer from a bit of bread, or, at least, it's very unlikely.  That was kind of my point, childhood cancers are rare to start with, so it's really your call how much you pursue that avenue.  Any vege oil he eats today, will leave his body in the next 5 years, so it's not permanent damage, and unlike sugar, it's not addictive and not a taste thing, he's not learning to love vegetable oils, only processed foods that contain them. 

    If he will only eat one type of bread, I'd try to get away from bread altogether as an alternative, if you really want to pursue it.  My feeling with a kid of that age is, you're going to struggle to get the sugar thing established, so focus on that, it's really simple and easy to explain.  Once he's used to being sugar free, he'll have grown a bit and you can better try to start work on the vegetable oil part.

  • 15 Jul 2012 10:39 PM
    Reply # 1010419 on 1010224
    Deleted user
    Rebecca Lane wrote:I can't sneak anything past my 10 y.old  he is also incredibly bright and in the gifted class to make matters much more complicated for me and himself lol.

    Well, hopefully that means you can explain the rationale behind not eating sugar to him, at least.  I know two women who had kids who were ridiculously smart, and it was hard work for both of them, so I feel for you.  There's a lot worse things for your kid to be, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to try to hold authority over a child prodigy.

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